How Do You Design Your Web App After Reaching MVP?

How Do You Design Your Web App After Reaching MVP?

Today, we answer a question from Rackless client Collin on ‘Design’. Let’s look at Collin’s question:

Hey Micky – we are pretty close to having the very basic functionality built and it’s almost time to make the website look pretty for Version 1. Will I need a different designer for the skin/HTML? – Collin

Congratulations, Collin on getting to this point! We love success stories at Rackless! We’re delighted your Rackless software developer, Isha, has been able to deliver to you a Minimal Viable Product (MVP). That is a huge milestone so be sure to pat yourself on the back!

I want to answer your question in 2 ways, today. First, I just streamed a live video via YouTube sharing how we addressed this same opportunity at Rackless you now face. To see that video, click here. Secondly, I want to go a step further and build on my answer from the YouTube live stream with a new idea. This idea I am hoping you can run by Isha, your Rackless software developer, to see if she would be up for it.

Live Stream Recap

Before I talk about my new idea, let’s recap what I shared in the video. At Rackless, we are fans of Figma. Figma describes itself as ‘helping teams create, test, and ship better designs from start to finish.’ We agree with this description.

Collin, given your technology experience and creativity, I strongly feel that if you learned to use Figma, you could advance your skills as a Product Owner and maintain the momentum you have achieved. Trying to add a 3rd party designer to the process I fear would increase your budget and slow your momentum. The most successful product owners we have seen have some level of experience designing. In the video, I mention 2 types of design:

  1. Graphic Design: This is the type of design that occurs when you are designing a logo, letterhead, and a billboard. The tools of this trade are often Adobe’s Photoshop and Illustrator. We recommend engaging these professionals when your budget allows. Tip: When you do engage a graphic designer, negotiate upfront ownership of all source files. Graphic designers refer to these files as vector files. We seen clients hire graphic designers to later learn the designer retained ownership of the copyright and source files. When working with a software developer, you need the source files to convert the design into HTML, CSS, and JavaScript.
  2. User Experience (UX): This is the design skill all good product owners and software developers possess. When you go to a website and log in, you expect to first be asked for your email address/user name and then the password. If you as a product owner asked for the password first, then you would be designing a bad user experience as it would confuse them. So if you have designed a webpage where a user enters information, you have the basic knowledge of User Experience.

User Experience

At Rackless, we recommend that the User Experience be owned and driven by you the Product Owner. If we look at a web app as far as software development and User Experience, both those components make up over 80% of the work.

So how do we make up the remaining 5 to 20% of the work that requires graphic design? We recommend you borrow inspiration from websites and web app you admire. Take a screenshot of those apps and websites you like and recreate them in Figma. From there, share the Figma files with your Rackless software developer to implement the design into your product.

Revolutionary Design Idea

Now for a revolutionary idea. Are you ready for this? Take a screenshot of web apps and websites you admire and mark them up to illustrate what you like about them. After that, send them to your software developer in a ticket asking them to implement the design in Figma for you! Mind’s blown right?!!?

So by doing this Collin, you and your software developer will be able to collaborate on the design using the design you already admire and want in your own product.

In conclusion Collin, we recommend you work closely with your software developer in creating a design for your product just like you have designed the features and User Experience that got you to the MVP in the first place. In other words, continue doing what you and Isha are doing because it is working.

I hope that answers your question, Collin! We look forward to seeing the amazing products you are able to build with your Rackless software developer Isha!

Below is the transcript from the meeting

Chris (00:00:00): Yeah, by the way too. I’ll just give you a quick update. I talked to Facebook today for like an hour and 15 minutes.

Micky (00:00:05): You got to talk to them like on the phone?

Chris (00:00:07): Yeah. So they sent me this email because I’m starting to spend a certain amount of money. They’re like, Oh, we want to give you free marketing support. So now I can talk to someone whenever I want.

Micky (00:00:19): I’ve never heard of anyone ever talking to anyone at Facebook.

Chris (00:00:22): I know I.

Micky (00:00:23): Don’t tell TheHopeLine. Thehopeline will be wanting to talk to them.

Chris (00:00:27): They should if they, you know, if they start- I think you have to spend a certain amount. And I was just looking on there. I think I’ve spent $7,100 or something like that in advertising in the last, oh, four months, five months or something like that.

Micky (00:00:41): That’s good to know.

Chris (00:00:42): Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean you- you hit a point and then I mean, I’ve talked to this girl and it was, she was great. I mean, she was walking me through, like, I think I found that I’ve been able to, I only used their capability of ads, about 10% of what they could do. It remains to be seen if all the other flashy things they do are going to be as effective as what I’m doing.

Micky (00:01:03): Yeah.

Chris (00:01:03): You know? Cause they’re like, Whoa, you’re getting good click rates and all that. So anyway, but it- it- it regardless it’s really helpful. And I, I think it just kinda shows walking by face sometimes is better than knowing all the stuff.

Micky (00:01:17): Yes.

Chris (00:01:17): Like.

Micky (00:01:19): Thehopeline is increasing their budget there. They’ve got some money that they’re spending they’re about to start spending on Facebook. So that’s good to know because we do have a lot of questions and but it may, you may be right. The 80, 20 rule you’re using the parts that give you 80% of your results. The other parts will only give you 20% so.

Chris (00:01:37): Yeah. Yeah, no, but I hope it shouldn’t be too difficult for them to get in that. And especially when they see their, their following there and be like, ooh, this is a big fish. We need to hook into these guys. I’m a small fish and they want to talk to me so.

Micky (00:01:49): That’s great though. That’s great. I’m glad to hear that they’re providing that level of customer service.

Chris (00:01:54): Yeah, it’s awesome. It’s really cool. So well, anyway, so what I wanted to talk about today is like so I’m- I’m starting to look at doing some redesign stuff just on the front page of my site. Redesign- yeah. Just redesigning the homepage. I can share my screen in a second.

Micky (00:02:13): Yeah go right ahead.

Chris (00:02:13): But the problem I’m running into, and this is also, you know, I’m constantly wanting to produce new content. And then it’s like, if you keep bringing stuff to your house, you gotta find a place to put it or it’s just going to clutter everything else up.

Micky (00:02:27): Yeah and I’ll tell you my theory on design that you bring that up. I always think you’re always redesigning. You’re always changing.

Chris (00:02:35): Yeah.

Micky (00:02:35): I don’t think it ever stops. I see a lot of companies make a mistake of like, we have a client now. I won’t name them because you wouldn’t know them. But since we’re recording this, but they made a mistake, they redesigned their website like once every 10 years. And to me, you should be redesigning it like every month, but not the total thing. Just adding elements that you reuse.

Chris (00:03:00): Yeah. And I, and I definitely am doing that. I guess I was just trying to be careful how I said redesign of this.

Micky (00:03:06): Yes.

Chris (00:03:06): You know? Cause I’m like, no, I just want to change the homepage a bit.

Micky (00:03:10): Yeah.

Chris (00:03:11): Well, so the first question is like, you know, cause I’m trying to organize it. And I looked at two ex- you know, I was looking closely at what TheHopeLine does and I was looking closely at what Every Student Does. So currently, if you look on here, you know, I’m getting this full of articles here and this one’s got, you know, two of the popup over here into that topic, you go to ‘Finding God’ there’s a lot of them there. ‘Strength And Peace’ and you know, ‘Prayer’ pulls out a few, this pulls out a few. And I’m starting to get, it’s just, I can’t- I’m not going to be able to keep up, fitting them all in there, you know?

Micky (00:03:46): Yes.

Chris (00:03:47): And so I’m just trying to figure out-

Micky (00:03:51): I have a suggestion for you.

Chris (00:03:53): Yeah. Let’s hear it.

Micky (00:03:54): Yep. So I’m not a big fan of these menus that pop out like this.

Chris (00:04:01): Yeah.

Micky (00:04:02): Um Kara, how do you feel about these types of menus? These pop up menus?

Kara (00:04:10): I can go either way. Like sometimes they get annoying, like if they don’t do them right. Or, you know, like sometimes I feel like if, If you hover, like, I feel like I want to click on it and then you click too soon. So I think it can be confusing for some. Or like you click on it, you’re taken away from like what you actually wanted to click on.

Micky (00:04:30): Yeah.

Kara (00:04:30): Um so I think sometimes like if you have many like that, they can be a little cumbersome for those that aren’t used to it or you know, or just kind of click happy.

Micky (00:04:43): Yes.

Kara (00:04:43): Um.

Micky (00:04:44): And s- the ultimate answer is it depends on um- Now let me show you here’s the way- Okay. I’ll give you the answer is Chris. You want to test this.

Chris (00:05:00): Okay.

Micky (00:05:00): Because you got to see, it depends on your audience. Whenever you hover, do you have to click to get the hover to come up or does it just come up automatically?

Chris (00:05:09): It just comes up automatically.

Micky (00:05:11): Okay. So there’s- that’s a place where you could test go to I know they’re a click company. They, you have to click to get something to pop up there. So let’s, so you see where it says health topics? Let’s click on it or just hover over health topics. And do you see how nothing pops out?

Chris (00:05:40): Yeah. You got to-.

Micky (00:05:42): And then once you click it, then it pops out. And do you notice how it stays popped out?

Chris (00:05:47): Uh yeah.

Micky (00:05:50): Yeah. So it doesn’t go away. So it’s going to keep that until you select something. And so if you’re going to use a pop out, that’s the way I would use a pop out.

Chris (00:06:01): I didn’t know- it’s funny I knew- I knew like at TheHopeLine is very aware of The Mighty and whatnot, but I didn’t realize they covered cancer. Huh. Interesting.

Micky (00:06:12): Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. The Mighty, The Mighty is just a they they’ll cover anything. They cover just- I do notice that they’ve moved into health recently with mental illness and things like that. Thehopeline doesn’t like that pop up. They, I like the pop up that they make you do. The Mighty is becoming like a social media site to me.

Chris (00:06:35): Yeah. It seems like it. I mean, there’s not like content here’s just post.

Micky (00:06:38): Yeah. TheHopeLine studies The Mighty a lot. Now let me give you another, let’s see if we can find another example. What, what’s an example of website that you admire?

Chris (00:06:50): Well, I’ll show you Every Student, but I noticed when I did a little case study between this and TheHopeLine they’re very different, like hers do not pop all you do, she’s got a really, really clean five different menu items and you click on it and it goes to kind of like a, you know, it shows exactly it shows all of our articles when you scroll down and it does that with all of these. And, and then if you go to the site map, I mean, you’re kind of like, this is all the articles on the site and then you can actually click on them. What I notice is she’s probably got a lot more content that she’s not showing on this. Because she, I don’t- I don’t, you know, she’s not really concerned about SEO. So I think her strategy is not to like continue to currently add new stuff.

Micky (00:07:44): Gotcha.

Chris (00:07:44): You know what I mean? That’s- that’s what I was seeing. And so she’s not concerned about that, but me I’m like, I’m dipping my toe in both.

Micky (00:07:53): Yes. She spends a lot on ads don’t she?

Chris (00:07:56): She does. And so I don’t think for her, it matters if there’s only 40 articles on her site or 50 articles.

Micky (00:08:02): Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. So she has a different strategy than TheHopeLine and you do.

Chris (00:08:06): That’s right. And then TheHopeLine I go here and there’s, to me, it’s, it’s just monstrous.

Micky (00:08:12): Yeah.

Chris (00:08:12): All their topics. And then you go to this and it’s like all the different, you know, things that they have that relates to that. And then all these other links you can get into. And then there’s blogs, podcasts, videos, eBooks. I mean, their site is, gosh.

Micky (00:08:34): Yeah. It’s a monster too. And one of the things about TheHopeLine is nobody comes to the home page.

Chris (00:08:41): Really?

Micky (00:08:42): Nobody uses those menus and nobody comes to the home page.

Chris (00:08:45): Well, it seems like ugh, I feel like I’ve had a fair amount that are coming to my homepage.

Micky (00:08:52): Yeah. So you have a different, you may have a different animal. And so the reason that I mentioned this is, as you think about your design there’s different ways to tackle this menu idea. But let’s look at your analytics. That is good to go and look at.

Chris (00:09:06): I mean, let’s, let’s see here. I’m getting about four or 500 visitors a day.

Micky (00:09:16): Oh that’s a lot.

Chris (00:09:17): Yeah. Yeah. It’s increasing I’m paying for it.

Micky (00:09:22): Yeah. Yeah. But that’s okay. You’re doing good.

Chris (00:09:27): Oh whoops. I was going to go all time here and just see like, how many are coming? Would th- would that be helpful? Don’t let me drive us t-

Micky (00:09:35): Oh you go ahead you go ahead. You go ahead.

Chris (00:09:36): I was just thinking, you know, how many are coming to the home page? And it might be, yeah. Okay. 7,000. I think I did do a campaign at one point that was bringing them to there, but that’s a decent amount of my traffic if I’ve had 124,000 page views.

Micky (00:09:56): Yeah so about 7%, 6%.

Chris (00:10:00): Yeah 5. Yeah.

Micky (00:10:03): 5.67 There you go. They do the math for us. Yeah. So 5% is coming through your website and then the rest are coming through ads. Let’s go to, let’s- your top page as a gift of peace.

Chris (00:10:14): Yeah.

Micky (00:10:15): Is that a landing page with no menu or is that a menu?

Chris (00:10:18): It was one that I was uh, it’s just a landing page. Like I was doing for awhile when Coronavirus was so hot.

Micky (00:10:26): Yeah.

Chris (00:10:26): I w- I was capitalizing on that.

Micky (00:10:29): Mhmm.

Chris (00:10:29): And you know, I still have this, I’m going to get this off here soon. But like, it was going to this, this article. Well, actually I should go back cause I made it into two different articles. Cause now I put that so it goes right to a article about peace, which is timeless.

Micky (00:10:46): Yeah.

Chris (00:10:46): And Coronaviruse is l-ike I made it into another just coronavirus article. Anyway. But sorry what-

Micky (00:10:54): What does your website look like when you go to mobile? Or let’s, let’s can you go back to stats and let’s see what percentage are mobile and what percentage are desktop?

Chris (00:11:02): Yeah. I can’t remember how to get that information.

Micky (00:11:05): You go, I always just go to search up there at the top where it says search for content and type it in mobile.

Kara (00:11:11): If you go to acquist- audience. Yeah. I mean, you can do that, but if you’ve got an audience and scroll down to mobile and then overview.

Micky (00:11:20): There you go. Alright. Mobile makes up 70% of your traffic, tablet makes up 20, and desktop makes up 12%.

Chris (00:11:34): What’s weird is why is this uh? Oh, this is users. This is not page views.

Micky (00:11:38): Yeah. It’s different. Yeah. This is, they measure devices by users because it’s always the same, but they usually always come back from the same device.

Chris (00:11:45): Okay. Okay.

Micky (00:11:46): You have a good bounce rate. 84% a good, I mean, it could be better, but it’s still good. Pages per session 1.4. You’re doing really good. You got some good metrics here.

Chris (00:11:57): Cool.

Micky (00:11:58): Um so can you show me what that page looks like in a mobile design?

Chris (00:12:07): Yeah.

Micky (00:12:08): Because you may want to focus on mobile instead of desktop.

Chris (00:12:24): Okay.

Micky (00:12:25): So you have a menu. So click on the menu and let’s see how it pops out. I like that. So now if you click “Finding Hope”, how does that work? So it takes you to the home page.

Chris (00:12:40): If they, if they click the triangle, they would see all the articles.

Micky (00:12:46): Oh. I like the way you did. I like that approach better than your desktop approach. Because if you click on “Finding Hope”, it takes you to the full page. Now on the “Finding Hope” page, can I get to each one of those pages from the “Finding Hope” page?

Chris (00:13:01): You used to be able to, but I haven’t kept up with it. And so I need to-

Micky (00:13:05): Like add more?

Chris (00:13:07): Yeah. They’re not all on there. Yeah. I need, there’s a couple of them that are missing and–

Micky (00:13:12): What’s cool is if you could build that menu based on what’s on that page.

Chris (00:13:18): Yeah, exactly. So that’s what I, that’s my question. Cause you know, it’s like when I do a new Story of Hope, there’s an automatic.

Micky (00:13:26): Yes.

Chris (00:13:26): List to it. And I, gosh, I just don’t even know how to do that.

Micky (00:13:30): And you might share this video with Isha and tell her that’s what you want to do. So the way we can go into the technical if you want to answer that question now, or we can come back to it.

Kara (00:13:39): Well I was gonna, I was going to say, I think that those pages Micky are in his post section.

Micky (00:13:45): Yes. Like by a tag?

Kara (00:13:45): Um and we can tag them. You know, what we could do, Chris is tag them with ‘finding hope’ and then Isha would build this page to if you add a finding of- a post a with ‘finding hope’ as the tag, it would add them automatically add it.

Micky (00:14:02): Yep.

Chris (00:14:02): Oh, wow. Okay.

Micky (00:14:05): Then that way you don’t have to worry about the menu. The menu will build itself.

Chris (00:14:09): Yeah! That’s what I want. Cause otherwise it’s just too many. It’s just too many–

Micky (00:14:13): Things you’ve got to remember.

Chris (00:14:15): Yeah. It’s just–

Micky (00:14:15): Like TheHopeLine for example, if you switch back over to TheHopeLine, all TheHopeLine does is write articles. They do not control any of this. It’s all automatic. Isn’t that right, Kara?

Kara (00:14:28): Uhuh. Yeah, so if you scroll down the page Chris, and you get to like right there, the- the- go back up just a little bit. So that- those are recent blogs. So if they write a blog and they tag it as ‘mental health’ it automatically adds it to this square.

Chris (00:14:50): Wow.

Micky (00:14:51): And then click on where it says, scroll down just a little bit and click on where it says ‘view more’.

Kara (00:14:59): ‘View More’.

Micky (00:14:59): So what we do is we limit it to just four, but then when you click view more, you see all of them.

Kara (00:15:04): And those four back on that other page are ones that have a primary category of ‘mental health’. Cause they have other ones that are set like mental health is like kind of the secondary topic on there. And so what they wanted to do was present blogs that are primary, primarily about mental health. So those are just pulling the primary, uh cat- I guess it’s category for TheHopeLine, but the primary category of mental health and it’s presenting those four. If you scroll on down it does the same thing for the podcast. So we tag them as ‘podcast’ and then categorize them as ‘mental health’. And it’s going to populate. Cause see it doesn’t pull all the podcasts on there. You got 44 episode 35 episode 27.

Chris (00:15:53): Yeah.

Kara (00:15:54): And then the same thing with videos and so on.

Chris (00:15:57): And it’s just achieved through tagging?

Micky (00:16:00): Yes. Tagging and category.

Kara (00:16:03): Yeah. So they, they ta- tag with the type of content it is so ebook, podcasts, video, blog, whatever. And they categorize it based on the topic it is.

Chris (00:16:16): Yeah. Yeah that makes sense. So so it sounds like I should do that, tag them with ‘finding hope’ and then it would go right to my menu. My second question, that would be though what do I do about, you know, cause it’s going to keep adding on here. But.

Micky (00:16:38): Yeah you would have to be careful about that. I would probably make it- First I would make ‘finding hope’ that if you click on it, you would make it- I would probably get rid of, I mean, this is me, but just know don’t do what I say do what works, I would have when you click on Finding Hope that it just goes to the page. I would get rid of this menu.

Chris (00:17:01): Oh, get rid of the dropdown menu?

Micky (00:17:03): Yeah. On desktop. On the mobile though you may want to keep it on mobile, but then again, you may not. People have become more scrollers than clickers.

Kara (00:17:15): And you could even, like kind of what GoEpps has done with TheHopeLine. Like those topic pages. If you go back to that mental health topic page they used to not have scroll up just a little bit. They used to not have all that, you know, wording on there that basically tells you what you’ll find in this, on that topic page. But what that, adding that, does is it gives it SEO credibility. You can put a keyword on that finding hope page.

Chris (00:17:50): Yeah.

Kara (00:17:51): And write some texts that goes along with keyword, you know, finding hope or something similar to that. And then, you know, you could even try and get those pages ranked to where they get to a full page of content and you know, post pages versus just one post page, but they’re going to find, you know, other stuff.

Chris (00:18:11): Yeah. Yeah. I think that makes sense. So if I’m understanding correctly, you know, all my stuff to be in the ‘finding hope’ category, then it would just automatically go in this and just be a really long scroll down and whatever the newest one is, it’s going to be on top.

Micky (00:18:30): Exactly.

Kara (00:18:31): Yeah. You would just tell you, just tell Isha that. That you want the newest one at the top.

Chris (00:18:37): Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 4 (00:18:38): I’ll tell you another thing I would do. I would get rid of the right column where it says, ‘Ask a Question’, ‘Walk the Faith’.

Chris (00:18:44): Yeah, it doesn’t do anything for me. Yeah.

Micky (00:18:47): Then what I would do is like, for example, where it says ‘Hope for All’, when you have hope, ‘How hope unites people of all faiths and backgrounds.’ I like that. Let me show you what I would do. I’m going to take a screenshot real fast-

Chris (00:19:01): Yeah.

Micky (00:19:01): -Of Your page. We’ll take a screenshot. Okay. Can you click on that article for me? And let me see what it looks like when you click on it. Okay. Scroll up to where there’s some copy. Scroll up just a little bit. Okay. scroll down just a little bit right there. Okay. Let me take a screenshot there. Cause I’m gonna do, I’m gonna show you what I would do if this was my site, come down a little further.

Chris (00:19:31): Do you want me to move it?

Micky (00:19:32): No, you’re good. I’m taking a screenshot and I’m going to show you. Okay. So let me share with you my desktop and I’ll show you as I do this cause we’re recording. Share. Okay. Do you see my desktop?

Chris (00:19:47): Yeah.

Micky (00:19:48): Okay. So I took a screenshot of that text. I took a screenshot of this page, so here’s what I would do. I’m gonna take my Snagit, move it over, erase this. So that’s gone. Okay. Then what I would do is I would take this copy, come back over here. And I would put that like right there.

Chris (00:20:11): So they can see some of the articles?

Micky (00:20:12): Some of the article, yeah. And actually let me, let me delete that. Let me go back and get minimize this just a little bit like that right there.

Chris (00:20:20): Yeah so they get the first para- or first sentence or whatever.

Micky (00:20:23): Yeah. And then I would do this right here. All right. Let me right click flatten. Okay. And then I would come over here. Let me go to TheHopeLine. We go to one of their articles. Let’s go over here. Let’s see on, I guess I forgot to flatten that let me flatten this. So you see what I’m doing? Like I would do something like that on each one of these articles, but then whenever you click on one of these articles, it still takes you, whether you click the image or the text, it still takes you or I click this.

Chris (00:21:36): Yeah.

Micky (00:21:37): That’s what I would do. And I would have every- And then what I would do is sort based on newest to oldest.

Chris (00:21:46): Yeah. that makes that’s great. Can you send me that screenshot?

Micky (00:21:51): Yeah let me go ahead and-.

Chris (00:21:53): Cause that’s what I want her to, I think that’s what I want Isha to do. And will that be enough of a way for, I mean, cause I know we’re talking about 5% of my traffic or 6% of my traffic. So it’s like, and I also did a campaign so it’s probably going to be less in the long run. I’m sure like TheHopeLine, I can’t remember what percent you said, but it’s like, this is important and it will be good for organization.

Micky (00:22:23): Well, let me, I’ll walk you through my thinking here.

Chris (00:22:26): Yeah.

Micky (00:22:27): So, it’s yes. It’s important and you should do it and here’s why, because we’re no longer talking about just your homepage.

Chris (00:22:33): Yeah.

Micky (00:22:33): We’re talking about your topic pages we’re talking about- because I’ll give you an example. I’ll show you my new So here’s We’ll be transferring you over to this. We’re going to create tickets. So this’ll be our new ticket system. So do you see the design of Like let me log out first. Okay. So there’s the home page of Let me expand this. How do I get it to where it’s not. I’m not seeing the camera what’s-. Uh Zoom is messing up on me it’s not, they must have changed something cause I’m on seeing as myself. I’m not seeing you guys wonder if I have to- Show floating controls, participants. That’s not what I need.

Chris (00:23:59): I mean, I can see with like a lot of this why people just create a blog and not a website because-.

Micky (00:24:07): Yes.

Chris (00:24:07): I just want it simple. I mean, like shoot I can set up a blog that’s not that hard. I’ve done it. I mean, when I first did it, it was hard for me cause I had never really done anything. But, but I mean I can see the advantages.

Micky (00:24:20): Yeah.

Chris (00:24:20): You know, just cause it is going to, it’s going to make the information a lot easier for people to get to. I mean, honestly when I see TheHopeLine’s, their stuff is so dense with content.

Micky (00:24:30): Yeah.

Chris (00:24:31): It seems like it’s a bottomless well of content.

Micky (00:24:35): Yes and that’s ultimately what you want. And so when you think about design, okay, I can see you now. My Zoom meeting was hiding everything from me.

(00:24:44): So I’m going to log in and I’m going to show you something. So no matter where you’re at in the app, one thing that I want to happen is a consistent feel. So for example, if I come over here and I go to accounts, you see this menu right here that says ‘create’ so I can create a new account. And then if I come over here to ‘conversations’, I see this menu here that says ‘refresh’ and ‘create’. Do you see that?

Chris (00:25:08): Yup.

Micky (00:25:09): And the experience is the same, no matter where you’re at that menu will appear and it will give you only options that, but I haven’t done it to this edit page. I haven’t done it to my profile page. So the profile page, I need to come and update to match this menu that exists here under create. So I tell you that because your design will always be in flux, you will always be changing things based on what works.

(00:25:37): So by doing- TheHopeLine, for example, if you come and look at their design over the years, you’ll notice that they’ve switched to this box design. That everything’s a box.

Chris (00:25:50): Yeah.

Micky (00:25:50): You’ll notice that if I go to one of their topic pages that box design has now infiltrated into it’s their content because here’s a box, here’s a box, here’s a box, here’s a box. Here’s more boxes. Here’s more boxes. And here’s here’s boxes of box. And here’s boxes of Ask Dawson and here’s boxes of stories and here’s resources that have not been switched to boxes. Does that make sense?

Chris (00:26:19): Yeah, it does.

Micky (00:26:19): So no matter what your design, even though you’re focused on your home page, whatever you do here will be extended throughout your website because you started it. And so I just share that with you because even in today I’m working on like, this is a page you can’t get to it’s the ‘System Admin’ page.

(00:26:42): But there’s a new section in here called ‘Values’ where we’re pulling the values of our total developers total hours and you have this edit button. Well this edit button is brand new and I like it because I don’t want anything editable unless you want to edit, so I’ve added this edit button over here. So now what I’m going to do is when I come to accounts, we don’t have edit here. But we will, I have ‘Edit’ up here. So what I’m going to do is move, ‘Edit’ down here to the menu so that it’s consistent. But I tell you that I haven’t done it yet on this page, but I did it on that page. But I remember as the Product Owner. Oh yeah, I like that new design. I like that new edit style. Let’s let’s implement that here, but I won’t do it all at once. I’ll just do it over time.

Chris (00:27:28): Yeah.

Micky (00:27:29): So that’s why I shared that with you.

Chris (00:27:31): Okay.

Micky (00:27:32): So even though you’re tackling the home page, you’re, what you’re doing on the home page will be extended to your other pages eventually.

Chris (00:27:42): Hmm. Yeah. But no, I like your suggestion because it, to me, it’s going to feel like Every Student because of the scrolling, even if there is eight or 80 articles on there in that one section, I don’t feel like it’s going to be that- they’re going to scroll as much as they want until they find something that interests them.

Micky (00:28:01): You got it. They’re going to scroll until they find something they want. And that’s exactly what you want.

Chris (00:28:06): Yeah. Okay. That’s a good, I think that’s a good thing to do.

Micky (00:28:10): Yeah and another thing is Google loves that. So let me tell you why Google loves it. Google is scanning all your pages. Let me share with you my screen.

Chris (00:28:20): Yeah.

Micky (00:28:20): And this is where, this is TheHopeLine’s secret sauce. So here what Google is doing is Google is scanning each of your pages. So they’re coming here to ‘Mental Health’ and they’re scanning it. Look at what they’re scanning. They’re scanning here and they’re saying, oh look, ‘Five Ways Isolation Can Negatively Impact’ let’s go there and Google is following that. And then they go here and they see this and then down here at the bottom, I see an ebook. Let’s follow that up. And then they get to this ebook. Oh, down here I get to ‘Ask Dawson’ let’s follow that. And then we get the, oh, let’s follow this. Do you see how Google just follows everything?

Chris (00:29:04): Yeah.

Micky (00:29:05): And then eventually Google goes, you know, who’s an expert on this? Thehopeline’s an expert on this because they have a hundred articles on this. And I know because when I go to their site, they show it to me. And so like when I switched, when I switched to here and I look at topics, Google’s looking at all these topics and going ‘Understand Mental Health’, ‘Relationship Challenges’, ‘Talk About Sex’, ‘Dating Tips’, ‘Addiction Recovery’, ‘Improve Self-Esteem’, ‘Recognize Abuse’. Do you see all the keywords that are put in here?

Chris (00:29:37): Yeah.

Micky (00:29:38): Then ‘Grow Your Faith’. If I go here, Google is acting like a user. They’re acting like they’re visiting. Now. Here’s something this page to me, you know, you’ll notice here at the top. It doesn’t really match the bottom that’s because they just haven’t gotten to where they can make the top match the bottom yet. But TheHopeLine isn’t after perfection, they’re after- they’re after effectiveness.

Chris (00:30:01): Yeah.

Micky (00:30:01): And so then if I switch here, ooh, they have a podcast. We’ll go to this podcast and here you’ll notice the design doesn’t even match the rest of the site. That’s because their site’s so big that they’ll never be able. Their constantly improving.

Chris (00:30:16): Yeah.

Micky (00:30:17): So I tell you that because what you’re doing is starting in one area and it’s going to influence other areas. There’s some people out there. The reason I tell you this is because your goal is not to seek perfection. You don’t want to redesign every page so it matches just like at, we’re using internally and I don’t have every page designed right. But it’s okay because it’s still useful.

Chris (00:30:41): Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense um and TheHopeLine has they have like three full time people and then I don’t know, four full time developers, right?

Micky (00:30:50): Yes.

Chris (00:30:51): Yeah, that’s.

Micky (00:30:52): And they still can’t get every page.

Kara (00:30:55): Well, they only have two full time developers right now.

Chris (00:30:57): Oh, okay. Okay.

Micky (00:30:59): Yup. They’re two full time. They’re about to have two and a half, right Kara? They’re about to?

Kara (00:31:05): Yeah.

Micky (00:31:05): Two and a half. They’re about two and a half.

Chris (00:31:07): Gotcha. Okay. Okay. so.

Micky (00:31:12): But, but I do like the idea of tackling the home page first because it is, I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s breaking on 10% of your traffic. You don’t have any other page other than a landing page that beats that. Right?

Chris (00:31:23): Umm. Uh no, I don’t think so. I mean, not, it depends what I run ads to you know?

Micky (00:31:33): Yeah, Yeah what I mean is SEO.

Chris (00:31:36): Yeah. No, definitely not. Yeah. There’s nothing else it’d be.

Micky (00:31:39): It’s the number one SEO page.

Chris (00:31:40): Yeah, that’s correct. And I know it’s people are going to it cause they’re go to an article and then I think they go back. Cause I I’ve noticed even recently, how many people are clicking, clicking on ‘Finding Hope’ the menu. And it’s not really, you know, it needs work right now but.

Micky (00:31:58): Another problem that I’ll share with you, my screen, just to-

Chris (00:32:01): Yeah.

Micky (00:32:02): -Go On your, here’s- there’s such a thing as too many choices. So if I go to HopeHasArrived. What I tell you, what I would do if I were you is I would put Hotjar on your home page and watch people.

Chris (00:32:18): Hmm.

Micky (00:32:21): And see what they do. So here’s what happens. I’m looking at your menu right now and there’s five choices. And if you give me too many choices or six choices, I guess seven, if you count the search. So when I click on this, now you’re giving me seven plus one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. Oh, wait. Now you’re giving me two more here. Does that make sense?

Chris (00:32:49): You got way too many.

Micky (00:32:51): Too many.

Chris (00:32:52): Do I have too many menu items to start? ‘Finding Hope’, Finding God’, ‘Strength and Peace’, ‘Breakthroughs’, ‘About’, and ‘Subscribe’. Is that too many?

Micky (00:32:59): The answer is I would use Hotjar to find out.

Chris (00:33:05): Okay.

Micky (00:33:06): But I think, I think more than one is too many. So that’s my personal opinion. When you, so let me show you now We’re not heavily advertising it. We’re not doing it, it gets, it gets a fair amount of traffic because I’ve been playing with SEO. But let me show you what it looks like when you go to mobile because that’s what we’re really talking about. You have a lot of mobile users. Okay. So let me switch it to mobile. Okay.

(00:33:32): Here’s when you go to it. My main goal is that you see the number of hours and number of developers because instantly you’ll know that we’re experts at this. You know, then when you click this, there’s four choices ‘About’, ‘Frequently Asked Questions’, ‘Contact’, ‘Home’. You know? So then you can click about, and there is no other menu. You go here, you know, and then you can scroll. But now do you notice, you can still get to every section if you just scroll. Because I know people scroll, people don’t click. But when I do click, I’m only giving them four options. And I tell you that because the number one website in the world gives you one choice and it’s a search. We switched over to the desktop because they obviously they’re mobile. They can do a lot more than a mobile. Okay. So here’s the number one website in the world for desktop, you know, so They’re only giving you one choice, but I do notice let’s switch back. What I find ironic, I’ve never seen this before, on their mobile site. Let’s go to their mobile. Hit refresh. I never realized they give you more. Do you see that?

Chris (00:34:53): Hmm.

Micky (00:34:56): I didn’t know that.

Kara (00:34:58): I didn’t realize that either.

Micky (00:34:59): That is crazy. I bet they’re testing and look up here, Kara, they give you images.

Kara (00:35:06): Yeah.

Micky (00:35:06): That is, I never realized that. I mean, that’s pretty cool. Let’s go to another popular website. Let’s see most popular. Learn to type. Let’s do nonprofit. Give me a lot of ads. Switch off just desktop. Okay. Student Conservationists. Let’s find somebody we recognize. The Memphis Zoo I recognize Memphis zoo. Go to their website. That is terrible. Oh wait that’s not Memphis Zoo that’s doubledo-. Oh, it’s a bait. It’s a Clickbait, you see that. We’ll look up the Memphis Zoo. So they did a bait switch. Alright. So there’s the Memphis zoo. Here’s the Memphis Zoo. Look at this they give you, I guess, I guess it’s not really a nonprofit because they’re trying to sell tickets. Let’s go. What’s another one we recognize what’s some Oh, To Write Love On Her Arms.

Kara (00:36:46): Yeah. TheHopeLine uses a lot of their stuff.

Micky (00:36:53): Let go to them. Oh yeah I have seen them . I did- I never knew that that’s what that stood for.

Kara (00:36:57): Yeah.

Micky (00:36:57): So let’s look at what their menu does. ‘Learn’. It’s a cool design.

Chris (00:37:05): What is this? What is this site?

Micky (00:37:09): Um To Write Love On Her Arms. What do they do Kara?

Kara (00:37:12): I think it’s like self worth, self image, a help like um. Cutting and stuff like that. Raise awareness and support.

Micky (00:37:35): ‘Self Care’. ‘Hope will not be canceled’. Their fonts a little small, but they are probably going after young people. Have a-, that’s their size font so small. But yeah. So Hotjar we just installed Hotjar how’s that working for TheHopeLine Kara?

Kara (00:38:04): I think it’s fine. Terri said something to me today about a heat map. I got to look at what she said. Cause she was like, well, you set up this heat map, I’m like, I didn’t set any of that up.

Micky (00:38:14): I know. I saw her, I was like, I’m sure we didn’t do that. I’m sure it just set it up.

Kara (00:38:21): Yeah.

Micky (00:38:21): So I guess this is what she’s talking about. So what we’re doing is we’ve got Hotjar set up on so that they can go and watch what’s happening on a page. And so what this does is show them where people are clicking. So do you see where some reason that people are clicking here? So it gives them a heat map. And you’re, you’re supposed to be able to play this right, Kara?

Kara (00:38:52): Yeah.

Micky (00:38:53): I’ve never used Hotjar so this is the first time.

Kara (00:38:54): Yeah you can I actually watched a couple of them.

Chris (00:38:58): Yeah, I have it. I’ve watched it a little bit, but maybe I need to go back and look at it again because I have the free version.

Micky (00:39:05): So here, somebody watching somebody visit this page, they run it for 36 seconds. But the reason I tell you this is I would use something like Hotjar and test and see what people are doing on your site.

Chris (00:39:23): Yeah.

Micky (00:39:24): And let that speak into what you do.

Chris (00:39:27): Okay. Okay. Yeah. Then I think that makes sense. So.

Micky (00:39:39): But I do think funneling- getting your- the ultimate goal for you and your website is to get them to the presentation of the gospel, right?

Chris (00:39:48): That’s correct. Yep.

Micky (00:39:49): So what you want to do is everything funnel to the gospel, your gospel pages. So your home page, how do you get them from your home page to a gospel presentation?

Chris (00:40:01): Well I mean all the articles.

Micky (00:40:06): Lead to that then, right?

Chris (00:40:07): Yeah. They go towards the ‘Knowing God’ or called ‘Knowing God Personally’. And but what I mean, like what we’re finding are our whole goal is engagement with God decisions just one part of that.

Micky (00:40:20): Yes. One part. So you want them for a longer term.

Chris (00:40:23): Exactly. And, and I just find like, even if someone comes and they just, they view content that’s like a a testimony which all the Stories of Hope are pretty much that even if that’s all they do, then I’m still engaged, we’ve still engaged them with God and their cancer fight. Or if we have a lot of articles that try and get people to pray and even if like, you know, ‘Asking God for Help’, this one’s done really well. Um so our decisions, I think we’ve had like a little over 200.

Micky (00:40:53): Oh that’s good!

Chris (00:40:53): We just had five, five last week, which is pretty cool. But I guess that’s a kind of a long answer to your question, but, but it’s, it is not our, it’s- it’s part of it? It’s not the main goal. Every Student they’re all about decisions.

Micky (00:41:10): Yes! I know that’s- they only have one, they have one thing. Decision.

Chris (00:41:14): It doesn’t work for us. We have lots of things because it’s suffering, it’s different.

Micky (00:41:20): And there’s a different- they’re in different phases of the, the situation they just found out.

Chris (00:41:27): That’s correct. Yeah. They.

Micky (00:41:29): Or they’re a caregiver, they are the patient. They are just got a scan they are in different areas. So you have to be more longer term than one time. So what you may want to do, so the different, so here’s your different goals? I would, here’s what I would do. Like if you want a homework assignment. You’re about to have, so you want them to sign up for your email newsletter.

Chris (00:41:53): Yeah.

Micky (00:41:54): You want them to visit an article. You want them to make a decision. You want them to, well before making a decision, visit a decision page you have different funnels.

Chris (00:42:07): Yes.

Micky (00:42:08): And you may want to start playing around with Google Analytics because, Kara am I using the right term, goals? Is that what they talk about in Google Analytics?

Kara (00:42:21): Yeah. ‘Goal Conversions’.

Micky (00:42:25): ‘Goal Conversions’. So for example, especially when you start dealing with donors this’ll become real important because the one thing that Every Student has going for them is that one metric. When you give to Every Student, you know that one metric, right?

Chris (00:42:43): Yes.

Micky (00:42:45): You’ll want to have those metrics eventually. And it’s a good exercise for you to work through and figuring out what those metrics are. So right now, a hundred people come to your website. How many sign up for an email newsletter?

Chris (00:43:01): I think it’s like a couple of them.

Micky (00:43:03): Okay. And then how many go to a decision page?

Chris (00:43:07): Oh, it’s, I mean, we’re talking of the 124,000 page views. We’re at about 200 and some, so it’s not any it’s- it’s low.

Micky (00:43:21): And then so that’s where it sounds like you want to start developing out your funnels because what are, what are most of what’s your, what would you say your most successful goal is right now?

Chris (00:43:32): Successful goal that we actually get to. I mean, I guess, I mean, we’ve, as we are, like, we were trying to do this yesterday, Micky, my dad and I were brainstorming this, but we found that 95% of our content is engagement with God. It gets people to either pray um.

Micky (00:43:53): Oh, that’s good.

Chris (00:43:54): Read the word or consider a decision with God and how he could help you in cancer. And so like it’s like, what we say right now is that for every 8 cents, you’ll get 12 people-

Micky (00:44:09): Oh I love it!

Chris (00:44:10): – Engaged with God.

Micky (00:44:11): I love that. And it’s w- I’m going to put that on the donate page.

(00:44:17): I was about to say, do you have a page where you could put that at? So here’s what I’m thinking is if you could build out how you can track that every month so that you can measure your rates, like TheHopeLine. I think TheHopeLine is $12 per hour will give you a Hope Coach that service. I forget they have all these metrics. But what I’m thinking is, well with Google Analytics, I can share with you my screen. You may want to take a class online, like me and Kara know enough to be dangerous, but it’s called um. So it’s Google Analytics goal, I think they call it conversion rate.

Chris (00:45:01): There’s a class or something?

Micky (00:45:03): Or I’m just guessing there’s a class. I’m sure. There’s like, Oh, hot jar. Look at that. The first one that comes up, Oh, let me show you.

(00:45:09): Let’s go a little deeper. We’re kind of on that train of thought. Here we close this. I got an email today from Google analytics. Look at what, okay. Google. This is Google analytics emailing their August, 2020 update. Look at who they mentioned Ka ra. Oh, wow. That is crazy. That Google analytics Hotjar so what they’ve done is it says Hotjar plus optimized new behavioral insights on your experiences optimized. Now it gives you third party CRO, which I don’t know what CRO means if they should or shouldn’t use our CRO. But let’s go look that up. That may just go thing. Let’s see. What is CRO conversion rate optimization? Okay. Conversion rate, optimization analytics tool, that power to associate their data, what they specific optimize experience. If you use heat maps, service, for example, you can identify optimized variance in your session. Recordings, unlocking new insight about visitor behavior while in their experience, the first third party developer to leverage our expanded Java script API is Hotjar. So I’ll include this in the challenge. Here is the Hotjar article from Google analytics. You mentioned. So here hot jar. So optimize now. So this is just repeating what they said earlier. So somehow, so anyway, let’s go back to this article that I found. So how they go conversion rate is calculated. So what you can do in Google analytics, the reason I mentioned is because you’re already using Google analytics. So have you ever been to goal conversion goals over like this section? It’s like Google analytics?

Speaker 6 (00:47:15): Mmm,

Micky (00:47:20): No. Oh yeah. A little bit with you guys, that’s it? Yeah. That’s you may want to spend some time there. Let’s see if I can that’s let’s go here. Let me, let me get this link. Here is the article on Google. So Google analytics conversion.

(00:47:45): Now, this is where this is like, we’re getting the SEO stuff right now. And this is where I’m not me, me and Carolyn Strong. We know enough to be dangerous, but we’ll give you a direction on this. So what Google analytics does is every website has goals. So it wasn’t that what me and you were just talking about. Yes. So think purchases add to cart signups that can be set up and monitored inside Google analytics. But do you know how many people are completing your goals and how many are not? And more importantly, why let’s take a look at how to find goal conversion rate, what you need to look at for NGA and how you can get closer to answering the question? Why? So what does go conversion and Google analytics goals and Google analytics help you keep track of actions, your website visitors did and didn’t take.

(00:48:43): So what you can do. So they, they look like they give us a screenshot, but I sent that article to you. So where you’re reading it out loud here. But the reason I share that with you is you may want to think about the reason I share all this with you. It’s, it’s important because your design needs to speak into goals, because if your goal is I want someone to donate, then your design needs to get someone to the donate page. If your goal is, I want to get someone to subscribe, then you need to feed them to the subscribe page. Now here’s, here’s another thing don’t be worried about trying to achieve all these goals in one visit, because the goal may be to get someone to come back to your site. Yeah. So I’m explaining this to you so that you understand, you may want to use social media and get someone on from social media to come to your website.

(00:49:39): That may be a goal. You may have multiple goals. Now. It makes sense what you’re saying. Cause you, you know, we were just talking about changing some of these things and moving articles around, but I can under, I can see how they related. And that makes a lot of sense to me. Can I share my screen to ask you a question? Yeah, go right ahead. Okay. I’m trying to find, Oh, here we go. All right. Okay. all right. So this is on this is on my staging site here and I was just having the issue, move some stuff around. Cause you know, I had the breakthrough section we’re, we’re totally getting rid of that. We’re moving away from it. We’re not going to do that actually. And so, but then when I was considering was, you know, I had stories

Kara (00:50:28): Of hope under strengthened peace. I was considering putting that on as its own thing. Yeah. But so I was going to ask your opinion here. So if I, if I still kept it on her here, then we’d have one, two, three, four, five items. Plus the menu bar and the donate that’s seven. Yeah. I mean, is there any reason I’d want to keep stories of hope isolated out here or I mean, the answer is just like that’s the answer is like I’d be curious. You can use Google analytics to figure it out. So let’s go to Google analytics and you want to see if we can figure this out. Okay. one question too. So I mean, cause like I mean I could to make it cleaner. I could put some scribe under about right? Yeah. But you’re how many people subscribe out of a hundred.

(00:51:29): Oh gosh, not very many. Let’s take a look at this. Let’s let’s cut real fast. Yeah. Okay. I see. It’s just got your donate button and close to being ready. Don’t you? Yeah. one quick question. Pull here. Orange. I didn’t know what it looked. I mean, it doesn’t really match any of the colors on my side. I noticed that myself, I didn’t know if you picked orange or if she did didn’t she just, I just had her mimic the hope lines, but I was like, should I go yellow? Should I go blue? You might want to go yellow or blue. You may want to do that. Okay. I was going to test, I have a ticket for her to test yellow, but I wonder if that might get lost, but something, it doesn’t look right right now.

(00:52:14): I think I just had her copy the hope lines and she would say Kate kept the same color, I think. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And that’s fine. Cause she did it. It looks, it looks right now. I just need to figure out the color. Okay. Here’s what I want you to do. I want you to go. No, Kara, you may have to help me. I want to see the pages after the homepage. So you got to go scroll down on that menu, go to behavior over on the left, get us that content. Okay. And then all pages.

Speaker 5 (00:52:55): Cool.

Kara (00:52:59): Oh yeah. And then you want to find your home by driving. So what I want to, I want to do the home page. Okay. So click on just that slash

Speaker 5 (00:53:10): [Inaudible].

Kara (00:53:15): Okay. And then click on secondary dimension. And you said you wanted to see the next page you’re at the next page. So type in next in that bar, next page path. So like that.

Speaker 4 (00:53:30): Alright, there we go. Thank you, Kara.

Kara (00:53:32): And then you, you may want to set your date range to something more specific like last, you know, from July, just so that you get a more recent. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (00:53:43): All right. So we have 788. Oh it’s not giving me the individual pages. And the bounce rate is 58%. So I know that’s wrong. Let’s change the secondary dimension type in page, just PAG.

Kara (00:54:06): So you could try the exit page.

Speaker 4 (00:54:09): Yeah, try that. There we go. Let me, let me look up what exit page means.

Kara (00:54:17): I think it’s for the session. It’s the page that they exited on for that session I believe. But you can look it up,

Speaker 4 (00:54:27): Look it up and okay. An exit page on Google analytics refers to the last page, a user SSS before their session ends or they leave the site. Okay. Yeah. So this won’t be exact, this isn’t the next page. Let me, let me look and see what next page is. Oh, it’s been deprecated that previous path. So it’s not in the next page. Well it used to be next page. How do I see next page in Google analytics set page previous page. I’m trying to see if I can find the next page. Oh man. This looks like a mathematical equation. Okay. Alright. Let’s see if we can do this. Okay. Can I, can I request drive on yours? Yeah, definitely. This is kind of a rabbit trail, but we’re gonna try this. So what they say do let’s go back. I just read one article. So just know that like this is, this may be a wild goose chase, but they say let’s go back further

Kara (00:56:39): Trying to look at when they come in through the homepage. Where are they going next, right?

Speaker 4 (00:56:42): Yes. Yeah. I use previous page path and set it to the homepage. So I really want, I, I I’m, I’m fine if it’s a rabbit trail, cause I want to know how to do this too. Why is it not given me?

Kara (00:57:00): You can just hit the X next to the paint next page path where it says,

Speaker 4 (00:57:04): Do you think that’s where it’s doing the

Kara (00:57:08): Well where are you going to go to the full list? I want to go the full list. Hit the hit the advanced I don’t know. Why does that sum over next to the search bar in the kind of the middle of the page? No, down on the neck. On, down on down. Yeah. Sorry. So you think that,

Speaker 4 (00:57:39): Okay, let me see. Let me go back to the screenshot that they have on this website that I had three cause this looks like we’re all supposed to be okay. Let me pull this. So they say include previous path. Okay. So it says include previous path. So I’ll do a previous, well, it’s not giving me. Oh, so I need to do page contains, click, click. Yup. We’re going to write there, contains this and let’s see how do they do that? So they have dementia. The, see it’s not giving it to me. Maybe I need to get rid of the let’s let’s go. Let’s just click over here and go somewhere else.

(00:58:46): And then so where did they say go? They say go to analytics, customization custom report. So let’s go to customization. Custom reports create new report. Okay. So here they’re saying is this really? Isn’t the report that I want. But I could do next page after home page. Okay. So let’s go to flat table. They say add dementia. We’re going to say page. Next page mentioned has been deprecated. Okay. So is that is not it page. So previous page hasn’t been deprecated, but next page has no one second pages. Okay. Let’s look up a second pages. Google analytics page.

(01:00:47): What’s the difference from the second page? The next page. Next page. The next page. After visiting the page, you have selected for analysis. Second page, the absolute second page of the visit. Okay. so can I set this great. We’re going to add a filter here. We’ll say each is slash Terri. This is go ahead and do say one or more fields contain invalid data. Okay. So I have to add a metric. Okay. So they say, do page views, page views, safe. Alright, there you go. Got it. Can you believe we built that? I can’t believe we actually did that.

(01:02:03): What did we just speak? Okay. So these are people that come to your site and then the second page that they go to the absolute second page they go to. Okay. Do you see what the number one page is? Other than this not set. I don’t know why not set this there, but stories of hope is your number one path, ways to hope as number two breakthrough. So what’s weird is you’re about, they’re all pretty close, right? They all get pretty close right here. Now if we went and we went let’s, let’s expand your date range or I guess your date range is pretty cool. Your big brand is somehow I narrowed it. I’m not sure what happened, huh? Yeah, maybe try just from the last couple of months. Go to here and here.

(01:03:11): Okay. So 4% went to asking God for hope. Stories of hope with second cancer scam was third and then they’re all pretty close. Hmm. Now does this necessarily mean that they went to your homepage first? Yes. This means the first page was the homepage. Hmm. I wonder if we should change this, this may be a bad metric to you. Second page. What I’m thinking is we use prior page here, previous page path here, and then what I’m gonna do is I’m gonna remove this. Can I remove this? I guess I hit it like that. Okay. Previous path. And then what I say is include previous.

(01:04:21): This is what the article said. Do, do you see what I’m doing here at Kara? Basically I’m saying the previous page was the home. Right? So now let’s see if this works. Okay. 480, but it’s not. So I, Oh, I need another metric. Let me go to edit. I would look at what they did on this thing. They, Oh, you know what? I gotta do I gotta do page. And then I got select this, here we go. Let me do this. I see what I did. I got did wrong page. This needs to be previous. This is the most I’ve ever done Google Analytics, crusher, sandal. The best I’ve got. There you go. We got a little bit better at that time. So this is when they went onto the homepage and

Kara (01:05:18): Then what they went on to next and it’s not necessarily homepage was the entry page. Now you could, you could get really technical and add a filter in there day Mickey that the entry page was the homepage too.

Speaker 4 (01:05:33): So like what she’s saying here is we’re going to say that the entry page

Kara (01:05:40): Hmm didn’t they have an entry page entry or, yeah,

Speaker 4 (01:05:52): Let’s see first maybe I think first let’s just do page, maybe it’s landing page. That’s weird that they have a second page. Oh, start page. So what I just did that didn’t work. You know what? I wouldn’t worry about that. I would just worry about, I think this reports better because yeah,

Kara (01:06:26): I would just, I would just know that that’s not necessarily the entry point. They just were on the home page and then that’s where they went to from the homepage. Yup.

Speaker 4 (01:06:36): Does that make sense, Chris?

Kara (01:06:38): So say again, they, they were on the homepage, but it doesn’t necessarily mean they entered there. Right. Which is fine. Cause yeah. What, what I think I’ve seen is like people come to the, you know, through something I advertise on Facebook, like a story, and then they’re like, Oh, what’s this art, you know? And then they go check out the homepage. You’d be like, Oh, what’s this organization about? And then they enter other content. And, and just so you know, to where it has, the page has a slash and the previous page path as the slash what that is, is people that have refreshed the page. Oh, okay. So just know that that’s

Speaker 4 (01:07:18): Where most people refresh the page. I’ll show you what they’re doing. What they’re doing is they’re clicking on your logo. Oh, people do that. And whenever they do that, it shows this sure. Yup. 37% of your people click on your logo.

Kara (01:07:42): Well, yeah, this, this, this is helpful.

Speaker 4 (01:07:46): So what I was going to tell you, the reason that we wanted this report was because I wanted you to see what were the most popular links on your home page. So for example, here, I don’t even see subscribe. So, so no one is clicking here. So that could probably go away. Hmm. No, one’s clicking on. Let’s see, finding hope. How many is finding hope? So red here, 3.7%. That’s still a lot. So if I were going to cut something off, let’s take a screenshot of this. So I’m taking a screenshot. Okay. Now let me expand this. So if we’re using the 80 20 rule, let me go and grab your square.

(01:09:03): It may be there. It may be there. Hmm. So could be right there. But anyway, at some point you would cut off the rest of these or are which one are, these are homepages. I mean, which ones are in the menu? I’m finding hope is the only one of those five. That is which one is finding help. Alright, so that one right there. You’re definitely going to keep on your home page cause it’s popular. So if we go back over to your website remembering your screen. Yup. Okay. Finding hope is your, do you see how everyone’s clicking that?

(01:09:55): So there you go. Now let’s go back over to your analytics. I wonder if I click on finding hope. Okay. So let’s go. Let’s go and do save, save. Okay. Let’s go over here and do a new custom report. Popular most part the alarm each after hope so. Do you see how we can create more reports here? Yeah. Page a secondary dementia, secondary page. Or was it secondary page one second already. Oh, I want to go save, right. Well, let me say, let me do page slave. We come back over here to your customer reports.

(01:11:06): Let’s go to this one. Oh, let’s go edit. So previous page path, previous page path. So let’s go over here to this customer report again. Let’s go with this one edit, previous. Alright. And then we’re going to add a filter where previous page path is equal to what was it? Funding finding help. So funding. Why is it not finding it for me? I thought it tripped ahead. Are you saying I dropped down in your head? Let me just go. I’ll go here. I’ll go like this. It’s still unsafe. Okay. So there’s your pages that are most popular after finding hope.

(01:12:26): And a lot of people are refreshing. A lot of people are going back to your homepage. Do you see that they’re hitting the back arrow? Yeah. So 12% get the bad girl, the next 12% go to fighting the fear of cancer. So maybe you want to move that to your homepage. Hmm. But do you see how we’re using these reports right here to speak into what your users are doing? Yeah. and I can rename this to match the next page after, or I can just name this. There you go. And you can have a recording of this. So you’ll see how we built these reports and stuff using this recording. Yeah, no, I appreciate that. You have two examples, but the reason I tell you all this is I would get into playing with Google analytics and I would also look into goals.

(01:13:26): Okay. Because using those articles I sent you because by setting a goal out here, you can, it will speak into your design. Oh, look at you. And from those, what, what day is that from? Oh, it looks like, Oh, you have a decision out here called best decision goal. That’s the goal. I think from our marketing campaign from a long time ago. Oh, that’s right. Your ad agency did that. So that’s from the last week kind of, like I said, I think there’s four or five. But the only reason I share this with you, as we’re talking about design, do you see the importance of making your design goals? Yes, I do. I do. And then like when you’re, when you ask us, like if we go back over here to customization and custom reports, when you say, should I remove something from the home page? This is what dictates your answer?

(01:14:34): What are people clicking on? Where are they going? What do they like? So fighting the fear of cancer seems to be very popular, at least in the last six days. Hmm. now if we go back and look in July, let’s see what was popular in July fighting fear, finding the fear of cancer seems to be your number one page adds to it as well. So it could be that people, this is where the report can be tricky because what I would like to add to this report is what the first page was. So let me, let me see if I can do that. I looked it up online. It’s called landing page Kara.

(01:15:24): So let’s add that to the report. So now look at this. Do you see where this is? The landing page? This is a page they came in on. Hmm. So fighting the fear of cancer. They went to the home page and they went back to fighting the fear of cancer. Do you see that? Yeah. Interesting. And then, so now if we look at the number one page, stories of hope is your number one page for your SEO traffic. Let me go to your other custom report. Let’s add landing page yet. So that way you have it. Let’s go to edit. Let’s go to Kara. I think we learned something that I didn’t want to using this. Yeah. I didn’t know that they changed that to a landing page. I didn’t know either. That’s Google though. Does it surprise you? Google changes stuff.

(01:16:21): Nope. Yup. So here’s 20, 30% of your users went to finding help page refresh the page, that can’t be right? That’s a 30% refresh the page. That would actually it’s correct. Because they landed on finding hope they refreshed, which took them to this page and they were on this page. Wait. So they came in on finding hope. Yeah. That’s what I says. I can’t be right, because I’ve never run an ad just for that, you know? Hmm. Let’s look up what landing page, the page, through which visitors entered your site. That’s what it’s saying. I mean that’s Oh gosh. Yeah. That’s that’s tricky, but yeah, I’m finding Google analytics is like, there’s a, it kind of gives you a general idea. Sometimes it’s really hard to drill into empirical proof of what actually happened. Yes you do. Just know that we’re new to this, like we may want to just like part of me wants to drag this over because this is the first page. And then this is the previous page. Let’s see, you guys know a heck of a lot more than I know. So let’s say this report makes sense. So landing page. So this is where they came in.

(01:17:56): Let’s see. I think I need to swap those two out. We may not even know. Mmm. We may not even need to display this. Maybe his page that may not be necessary because it may just be confusing. Hmm. So this is the landing page and this is where they ended up or I guess that wouldn’t make this report any sense. Let’s did that. Let’s have that previous page back because the name of the report is previous. Okay. So let’s go here. So technically we probably want this to be first. So what does this page mean? We’re just, we don’t need this page. Do we next? Well, I guess it’s the next page landing page. Previous page. Page. Okay. So, okay. This was the previous page. This is where they came in.

(01:19:02): Okay. I’m confused now, but, but you know what it’s doing? Yeah, based on the title, it there’s two ways you can do this. One is you can rename it so that it shows you what this path is. But ultimately the next page page after finding hope is this page. So just now when we’re reading this report, here’s what’s happening. This is the page that they went to after finding hope. We know that because the previous page is finding hope. This is the page in which they entered your website. So is fighting the fear of cancer and ad page. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. That’s one. So you may, you may want to research that finding hope and find out if you do have people coming in. Yeah. The way we could find that out is let’s do, let’s do another report. You could look at the channel in which they came in. Oh, that’s a good idea. So you would think acquisition, all traffic, all traffic channels, you know what I got, I got a better idea of Kira [inaudible], but it builds on top of your idea. Let’s go to customer reports, let’s create a new one and let’s do channel four finding we’re not the name of the page. Did I get that right? Finding hope. Yeah. So we’re going to go inside. Dimension is page.

(01:20:43): The next one is previous page because we need to know that, I guess. And then let’s do landing page and then I’m going to add a filter that says landing page was fine there. That one gives me talking about here. That’s what I was looking for. So landing page is finding hope. Oh, I, you know what I need, I don’t need the dimension. I need the channel channel or yeah, sourcer. Hmm. Referral. What is it? I guess we know page views will do it. Maybe I got to do it up here. Maybe instead of previous page. I do channel.

(01:21:54): There we go. What, go back, go back to that. Dropdown of the Depot channel grouping right here, asking to see what other options you had under acquisition. Don’t tell don’t type in channel. I just wanted to see what I got your source. You know what I could do? I got an idea. Her daughter will run this report and see direct one. You gotta update the date range. Yeah, but I think I used the state range. Let me go to look. So next page after finding hope. Oh, you’re right. Yeah. You’re right. Do you know what the date range was? Kara that I used was one. Yeah. To the twin. I think it went to the 24th of August.

(01:23:00): We’ll just do this Peter. So we’re showing 19 for July. Okay. So if I come over here and go to customer reports and then we look at channel for finding hope, it says referral. Okay, we’re getting, we’re getting specific. Now what I want to do, Kara is I want to add I guess they only give me three or I guess, I guess I can get four right here. Let’s go to an acquisition referral path. Yes, let’s go. Let’s go. Let’s send some more. Let’s just add a mall. Maybe like medium would be let’s let’s over, over with medium is Ooh, UTM medium. Hmm.

(01:23:53): Your L that referred the traffic. We got that one source source medium. Let’s do that one. I guess we can only do five. Okay. All right. Let’s see. Look at that servers. Three seven, three Fords. Laravel.Com referral. What does that mean? Kara? That’s our server hosting. I know that’s weird. Forge.Com server. Okay. That’s a question we’re going to ask, where are you going to go over here and take a screenshot of that? It keeps one of the parental marks on his screen. We will find the answer to this chris. Yeah. Well that sounds good. Yeah, because that that source right there, Kara, we may need to block that source these if from the analytics. Yeah, I would ask Isha and then that’s me. We contact Laravel and see why they’re sending traffic to that site. This is good. We’ll keep this something, Chris, because it looks like these 19 visitors right here are the server itself doing some kind of maintenance. Hmm. So what we could do, w w we’ll follow up on this because we may need to block this source medium right here, the source.

(01:25:48): So that number is erroneous, so I’m glad we did the yeah. Well I should probably hop off, but thank you so much for the call and yeah. Yeah. Show me some of this extra stuff here. Yep. You’ll get this. It’s recording. Watch this again, play with customer reports more and then think about goals. And then those articles I sent you too. Sounds good. And then, and then you can follow up with us and let us know what you decide on your design. Yeah. I’m definitely gonna work on that with, with with Isha. So yeah. Awesome. Well, Hey, you guys, thanks again for your time. Really appreciate it. Thank you, Chris. Have a good one. Bye.